Today I interviewed Simon Sebag-Montefiore, one of the best historians in the world and probably one of the most popular historians in the UK. He recently published a new book. We talked about why Kherson is important to Putin, how Potemkin became a key figure for him, different ways to look at the history of the world, differences of today's and Stalin’s Politburos, and what will happen after Putin's death.
00:00 Simon Sebag Montefiore is a British journalist and historian, his main focus has been history of Russia and the USSR. His books Stalin: The Court of the Red Tsar, Monsters: History's Most Evil Men and Women, The Romanovs 1613–1918, became world bestsellers.
01:16 Recent news from Kherson. Why Kherson is important for Putin's perception of Novorossiya and Russian colonization. Potemkin founded Kherson as the first Russian city in 1778 on the conquered lands of Ukraine. Kherson got its name after the Greek city of Chersonesus and was supposed to become a kind of new capital. Potemkin was the largest minister, the largest politician, and statesman for the entire period of the Romanov dynasty.
04:10 The concept, which was called the "Greek project": was the capture of Byzantium and Constantinople, the south of Russia, more precisely, the south of Ukraine, which was to be made Russian. The concept was very different from that of Putin's ultra-nationalist authoritarian Russia. The difference with Putin's vision: they were Russian imperialists, and they brought serfdom to Ukraine. But they were also much more humane. The leaders of modern Russia are the descendants of the Bolsheviks, who were remarkably ruthless.
09:50 Why did Russian troops take Potemkin's remains? Report on Potemkin for Putin. Potemkin is a link between today and the past. There is no direct connection between Kievan Rus and Russia of the 17th and 18th centuries. Putin suddenly began to mention Potemkin - and with him Suvorov, Ushakov, who, in fact, served him. They took away the remains because this is how they represent a direct link between Russia and this territory.
14:40 The equal importance of different cultures and civilizations as a new approach to world history. The UK is very Anglocentric and just obsessed with it. In Russia, nationalism uses a distorted version of history. Showing history through the lens of families is a very elegant way to appreciate this diversity and start treating Africa and Asia the same way we treat Europe.
21:42 How to get rid of the empire in Russian history. In historical science, one can observe a slow but sure, gradually increasing pace of development of the trend toward the decolonization of British history. Russia is a very special phenomenon. Russia as an empire was created by Peter I. And after him, the concept of self-consciousness in Russia has always been associated with the empire entrusted with the sacred mission of expanding into the outside world. It is quite difficult to overcome this obsession, and the idea continues to exist in modern Russia in the 21st century. Sometimes it takes total humiliation to change your mind. Perhaps Ukraine will become such an experience for Russia.
26:48 The difference between Stalin and Putin: Stalin really controlled the life and death of his inner circle. There is no actual evidence that Putin is eliminating members of his elite. But people are desperately trying to demonstrate loyalty, blaming themselves and others, the atmosphere of the search for enemies of the people, the search for traitors. Shoigu reminds me of Voroshilov. Who is Beria and who is Khrushchev. There are several Berias now: Zolotov, Naryshkin or Patrushev. Khrushchev can be, for example, Medvedev. Now we are laughing at him. He is a joke. But it could be him.
31:00 Will everything change after Putin leaves? Putin's death is the only way out and the way to change the situation. Or a coup d'état. But the regime may not fall apart with Putin's death. Goida and guardsmen. Stability of authoritarian regimes.
36:41 The collapse of the Soviet Union continues to this day. The Russian Federation is the Russian Empire under a different name. As long as this state exists, there will be conflict between it and the new small states on its periphery until these states become strong enough. Putin is accelerating this process because Ukraine is going to become a truly powerful military state. Russia may collapse.
40:20 Famous figures in Russian history are bloody monsters. Peter the Great. Every tsar, secretary general and president of the Russian Federation dreamed of becoming a military leader. Stalin considered himself the greatest strategist, he learned to be one during the war. He suffered massive losses, no leader would have survived this. Putin in transit: can he become a commander or become like Adolf Hitler. Putin's invasion of Ukraine: is it the end or the beginning of history? "Normal disorder has returned"
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